Pike and Pickerel Points/Observations

[champlainangler]

This thread is a bit long winded so I hope folks will read through it for some valid insight on holding pike and pickerel as well as some good observations and a few questions about fish we've caught over the past few seasons.

Shawn Good respectfully reached out to me yesterday in a PM about the way I've been having clients hold their bigger pike for their photo opportunities. A recent body of evidence suggests that larger pike, muskellunge and even pickerel may be suffering damage or even mortality by holding them vertically for pictures. I am never to old to learn something new from a biologist. Thank you for sending the article Shawn. I'll paste it into this message when I'm done. Although it refers to fish in the 25 pound range (we wish we were catching them that large), the conclusion is that any longer species of fish, no matter the size, may be compromised by a vertical hold. I'm going to invest in a sling to land larger fish next season and work on a better way to document those trophy sized pike.

It is my hope that in releasing fish we are protecting the fishery. Indeed throughout each of the past two seasons, my clients have brought more than one thousand pike and pickerel to the boat and released the vast majority of them. One group of three New Jersey anglers landed and released 80 in eight hours. I target pike in only a handful of shallow areas and frequent these areas so protecting the stocks is very important to me.

I rarely net any small fish and only do so to control larger ones where hooks and teeth might cause injury to people. I usually grasp smaller fish over the back just behind the gills and unhook with long pliers near the surface water to release. I always thought that the less we touched the fish the better and therefore for photos had clients pinch the fish at the thin fold of the lower gill plate where it meets the bottom jaw, mostly one-handed. This avoided both client injury and touching any slime on the body of the fish and it prevented touching actual gills as well. When released most shot off like a bat out of hell. I never had any indication that the fish we released were suffering any damage, but then admittedly one never knows in the longer term what happens to released fish. Surely some die from blood loss/gill injury but that is usually from hook damage. Perhaps some die and just lay on the bottom to rot, but we never noticed any in the shallow waters nor did we see any washed up on shorelines or floating in these isolated locations. Hopefully they were not the size that the article refers to as being most affected and they survived. Bottom line, I'll be much more careful to avoid the vertical hold next season.

Now for the questions/observations;

Pickerel characteristics are different from pike in several ways; color, pattern on the flank, numbers of scent pores under the jaw, and the dark teardrop that pickerel always exhibit. After catching as many as we do it becomes obvious which is which, but sometimes we catch what I always thought were hybrids with a mix of characteristics and a diagonal pattern on the flank. This season I noted a new characteristic in the tail. Look at the pictures and note the differences of each. Maybe someone can explain the strange looking tail on the last one listed. And, maybe someone can tell me how many strains of each, pike and pickerel, that we have in Lake Champlain... Shawn?

Pike - www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/pikefernando91410a.jpg


Pickerel, chain and teardrop - www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/pick1.jpg


Hybrid? - www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/pikeinland.jpg


Hybrid? - www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/hybridjohn10309a.jpg


Hybrid? Tail! - www.angelfire.com/home/lake/images/hybridbrian92710a.jpg


Horizontal vs Verticle - www.thenextbite.com/node/11319?page=show



Captain Mick
www.LakeChamplainAngler.com

[brian]

Good post. I agree that pike and pickerel deserve respect. They are fine game fish and decent table fare, if one is so inclined.

I believe the three "hybrid ?" photo's are indeed nothern pike - chain pickerel hybrids. There are a few other posts on this forum with similar pictures. The odd tail on the third fish looks to be the result of some type of fin disease, but that's just my guess.

[An Bradon Charters]

Mick, Great post! I agree with you that Preserving Pike, pickerel, muskies, as well as any fish that swims is a priority for everyone. Or least it should be. Pike and pickerel are a great fish to target. Many people do not realize the fun and great eating quality of these fish. Not to mention it is difficult at times to consistently be able to hook up with sizable fish. I also have several spots where we go back to for these fish. I have not seen any mortality in these areas. Also the fishery has been consistent from year to year. i think the article you posted is a great one. I too never gave it much thought as far as what angle we held the fish. But reading that article makes me take a second look.
Thanks again Capt. Mick and Shawn for the read.
See you on the water.

Capt. Tony

www.anbradoncharters.com

[fishing eagle]

I have read a number of articles on the subject of handling fish and especially larger fish by holding them in a vertical position and they say that great harm can be done to the fish. From what I have read, most all fish should be held in a horizontal position and especially larger & heavier fish should be supported with one hand under their stomach area. I do have two different landing nets, plus a cradle net aboard my boat as well as fish grippers and handling gloves. For toothy fish that I plan to keep, I will use my fish grippers to hold a fish by its mouth. For many fish (especially Salmon) that I plan to release, I will use my landing net that is made to protect & release fish. It is flat bottom, with small netting holes and made of a soft fabric. It really does help prevent a lively Salmon or other fish from jumping and the fish lies flat. I will use this net to confine the fish but not lift it from the water. It makes it easy to unhook a fish and release it. The other net is very large and deep and okay for a larger fish that you want to boat but the fish Will usually get caught up in the net in a more vertical position. I also have a cradle net that is some 36 inches long and made with 2 wooden handles along the nets length. This net is used by many Musky fisherman as it is used to cradle a larger lively fish along side your boat in order to facilitate the unhooking and release of a fish. It also aids to keep the fish in a calm trapped position so that you can view it, measure it and photograph it before releasing. This net takes so getting use to using as you must bring the fish along side of you boat as another fisherman guides the net below the fish and entraps the unwilling fish.

I did use a Berkley or Gripper fish gripping device for a couple of years until I read an article where they proved some terrible fish mortality due to this device. The fish biologist claimed that the fish were dying after release basically due to a broken spine that caused death after release. I was convinced to do things differently.

[An Bradon Charters]

Dec 3, 2010 20:42:38 GMT -5 fishing eagle said:

I did use a Berkley or Gripper fish gripping device for a couple of years until I read an article where they proved some terrible fish mortality due to this device. The fish biologist claimed that the fish were dying after release basically due to a broken spine that caused death after release. I was convinced to do things differently.

Is this device the same or similar to the Boca grip?

Capt. Tony

www.anbradoncharters.com

[fishing eagle]

Yes the Gripper device is similar to the Boca Grip. The gripper or Boca was described as being one of the best ways to handle fish and now fish biologist are saying differently.

The net I was trying to describe is the Frabill Conservation net. I read a nice report on it and I purchased one. I do agree with the report and advertisements that it supports a fish and makes it easy to handle. The net works perfectly with single hooks but treble hooks do have a tendency to hook into the netting with the small mesh netting. It is a bit shallow and a active Salmon will jump out of it every now & then. I did have a nice 5 pounder jump out this year and then throw the hook. I wasn't planning on releasing that one! I still blame my fishing partner & not my net. LOL

I am also changing over my lures with treble hooks to single hooks to prevent them being caught in my nets and also to stop harming my release fish, especially Salmon.

[An Bradon Charters]

Dec 3, 2010 21:46:08 GMT -5 fishing eagle said:

Yes the Gripper device is similar to the Boca Grip. The gripper or Boca was described as being one of the best ways to handle fish and now fish biologist are saying differently.

The net I was trying to describe is the Frabill Conservation net. I read a nice report on it and I purchased one. I do agree with the report and advertisements that it supports a fish and makes it easy to handle. The net works perfectly with single hooks but treble hooks do have a tendency to hook into the netting with the small mesh netting. It is a bit shallow and a active Salmon will jump out of it every now & then. I did have a nice 5 pounder jump out this year and then throw the hook. I wasn't planning on releasing that one! I still blame my fishing partner & not my net. LOL

I am also changing over my lures with treble hooks to single hooks to prevent them being caught in my nets and also to stop harming my release fish, especially Salmon.

I thank you for the information. Too bad about the findings of the Boca grip. They are very costly and if they really do not do anything to benefit the fish what is the point? I was considering getting one for the ease of handling fish. I am now looking more into it. I have also seen the net you mentioned. Another option. Thanks for the look at what you have discovered.

Capt. Tony

www.anbradoncharters.com

[vtfishbio]

Capt Mick: Thanks for passing on the information on horizontal versus vertical holds for larger fish to the general forum.

The problem with vertical holds can actually apply to more than just long fish like pike and muskie as well. I get Bassmaster Magazine and BASS Times, and I recall an article within the last year discussing the injuries large bass can sustain from improper holding as well.

For pike and muskie, by far the best method of landing them is a cradle. I have several cradles, and the one I like the best is one by Frabill I picked up a couple years ago. Fishing Eagle is right in that it takes some coordination from two people in the boat to guide a big fish into it, but once in, you can work on getting the hooks out while the fish is still in the water over the side of the boat, and then you can just let it swim out on it's own. The cradle has a built in measuring tape if you want to get a length before letting it swim away. If you want a picture before letting the fish go, you just slide one hand under the head of the fish, and the other about 2/3 of the way back under the belly, lift horizontally for a couple pics, then back in the water.

The vertical hold can be damaging for sure, and not just on 25-lbers. It used to be thought that the vertical hold damaged internal organs because everything inside the fish is used to being in essentially a neutral buoyancy state "floating" in water, and when you lifted it vertically, everything would get compressed. Now it's known that actually the internal organs are quite elastic, and will stretch without getting damaged. Really, the damage occurs to the skeletal system, which isn't comprised of rock hard bones like mammals, but is rather more soft. The heavier the fish, the more weight is put on the bones and joints that keep everything together when held from one end.

I believe it also goes for lifting by the tail, and this is from personal experience. A number of years ago we were working up some nets on Champlain full of over 1,000 fish, and we had 200 or so catfish up to 28-lbs. The easiest way to get a grip on a catfish is around the caudal peduncle (the narrow spot just ahead of the tail). A number of times, when I grabbed and lifted fish from 6 -lbs up to over 20 by the tail and hauled them out of the trap, I could feel and hear several "pops". This was almost certainly some kind of separation of joints in the backbone. It wasn't pleasant, and I've never done it again.

At the very least, I hope anglers with pike avoid the "fingers in the eyes" hold, which I seem to see way more than I should for some reason, even with fish that get let go. Also, I see this hold way too much as well ...





Notice how the anglers fingers are jammed in the pike gills. So, not only are the fish being held vertically, but gill damage is likely as well. These pictures are from a new television show's website (filmed in VT and NY) that is airing this winter on the Sportsman Channel. It's too bad that this sort of thing will be shown to the public, because it is promoting some incorrect messages.

In any case, I hope this didn't come across as too "preachy". Thanks again Capt. Mick for passing this on.

Now, on to the hybrids. You were correct in all your assessments of the pike, the pickerel, and the pike-pickerel hybrid.

The diagonal pattern, where the "bean" shaped spots you would normally see on a pike kind of line up into vertical or diagonal stripes is a sure giveaway that it's a pike-pickerel hybrid. The pore counts isn't consistent in the hybrids, same with the teardrop under the eye.

These fish have been know to exist in Champlain for a long time. I have various fisheries reports back to the early 70's and late 60's that make mention of them. Recently, the fisheries biologists in the NEK found them in Magog. Basically, anywhere northern pike and chain pickerel occur in the same waters, there's a chance of them naturally hybridizing.

I'm hearing about these hybrids alot more lately on Champlain. I don't know if the hybridization is happening more frequently, or if anglers are just noticing and reporting it more.

I've had tissue samples run on them for genetic analysis, and the results show that they are male pickerel fertilizing female pike eggs. I don't think it's something they're doing on purpose (ie "pairing up"). I think it's a result of their spawning timing and locations overlapping, so that the two species are spawning in the same spots at the same time, and some male pickerel milt "drifts" in the water and ends up fertilizing some pike eggs. Odd weather patterns in the spring may be the result of the timing of the two species spawning closer together.

I can't tell you how many strains there are in Champlain of these hybrids. Pike and pickerel is one - male pickerel fertilizing female pike eggs is what our genetics results showed. Maybe male pike fertilizing female pickerel eggs would result in a different looking fish. I don't know because I can't say I've ever seen that.

With our muskellunge stocking ramping up recently, maybe we'll see pike-muskie hybrids some day as well. It's hard to tell. Tiger muskies look distinct though, and what you caught isn't a tiger muskie.

Here's a picture of a hybrid pike-pickerel I caught two years ago on Champlain.



And here's a series of pics showing a northern pike, a pike-pickerel hybrid, and an actual chain pickerel, for comparison ...



And another hybrid I caught on Magog:

[shirefisher]

Are one of those hybrids, a red fin?

[Yar-craft Crazy(Lally)]

WOW, Those hybrids are COOL looking! I think they are nicer looking than either of their related species!!! I want one ;D

[fishing eagle]

I still like my Berkley or Boca Grip to use on some fish when I plan to eat them. Sure helps to unhook an active fish and control it and saves finger cuts on sharp teeth. Yet the grips will also tear the soft tissue around a fish's mouth too.

I understand that at one time the Boca Grips were highly suggested to use for fishing saltwater fish but now some tournament folks have outlawed them in their tournaments where fish must be released.

The Frabil Conservation net is really nice and many fish do seem to be more calm when laying flat in the bottom of the net. I like it also with Salmon because it is a fine soft material and seems to cause less harm to the fish.

[salmoneye]

What kind of regs apply to the hybrids?

[vtfishbio]

Salmoneye - Basically, the least restrictive regs apply. So in this case, the chain pickerel regs apply to the hybrids. No closed season, no length limit, 10 per day.

[salmoneye]

Thanks for the prompt reply, and many thanks for alerting Captain Maynard to the issues involved in handling...

This is what this site is all about...

[Yar-craft Crazy(Lally)]

I read this about the Boga this summer in a "In-Fisherman" magazine and even posted it on a thread here debating wether the Boga was worth the price. The article did state that the fish did not die, however they sustained a longer down time before feeding again and perhaps the true outcome of the injuries was not yet understood. Too bad I do like letting the kids hold toothed fishes with it! I will probably continue to let them , for I fear a drop on their head into the bottom of the boat will be a more dramatic and permanent injury??? Besides, if they make my girls bleed I'm gonna KILL them anyway! ;D I think the flat bottoms on the rubber nets works as well as the conservation nets....no? I know not for Pike and such and for these long fish I would think a cradle is a MUST!!!!