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Post by sleepswithdafishes on Mar 29, 2011 5:18:38 GMT -5
For anybody thats interested the meeting in Middlebury tonight will be streamed live on vermont public tv tonight at 7pm the website is www.vpt.org/live. Sleeps
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Post by fishinmachine on Mar 30, 2011 5:53:38 GMT -5
I COULDN'T GET YOUR LINK TO WORK BUT I GOOGLED IT AND FOUND IT LIVE ON THE INTERNET,,,THANKS
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Post by luckydevil on Mar 30, 2011 7:07:06 GMT -5
How was it? Did any one go? Any new info to pass along?
What did they say about AR's? My strong opinion is to go to 3 on a side.
I would have liked to go to one, but there are none near Underhill and it is the middle of sugaring season.
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Post by sleepswithdafishes on Mar 30, 2011 8:25:51 GMT -5
luckydevil I would be interested to hear why you feel we need to go to three points per side!!! Sleeps
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Post by luckydevil on Mar 30, 2011 15:23:39 GMT -5
I think that the current antler restrictions have had a very positive impact on the quality of hunting in Vermont. By protecting spike horns, we have seen an increase in overall weight of bucks harvested, without a drop in number of bucks killed. We are seeing some of the best hunting the state has ever seen by allowing some of the bucks to grow up. We are also creating a more balanced deer herd with more mature deer in the forest. This can never be a bad thing.
Previously, half the number of deer killed were spike horns, and the average weight was much lower. There were and still are, 1.5 yr olds doing most of the breeding.
By going to three on a side we would essentially protect all 1.5 yr olds. This would mean more mature deer in the herd, better quality hunting, a more balanced age structure, and greater hunter satisfaction.
As we have already seen, after 1or 2 years the number of bucks killed went back to normal. The same should happen if we went to three on a side. We would still kill the same number of bucks, however it would be a better hunt. We would see a stronger rut, more buck sign, and larger bucks, and more lbs of meat per kill on average.
If you are a meat hunter, just look at the statistics, your odds of shooting a deer will be the roughly the same as it was before 2005, and would be if we went to 3 on a side. You may see a spike or 3 pt that you cant shoot, to me that is enjoyable. But the odds would be the same that you would see a shootable deer as it was pre-2005. The only difference would be you would likely shoot a 140+ lbs deer instead of a 100 lbs spike, and have a nice rack to put on your wall to boot There is also ample opportunity to shoot a doe in archery and muzzleloader.
More meat, larger racks, more buck sign, stronger rut, healthier herd. Sounds good to me.
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Post by sleepswithdafishes on Mar 30, 2011 15:30:04 GMT -5
Well stated luckydevil!!! I am on the same page as you!!! But I think there have been some rumblings about going back to taking spikes!! This is what ive heard not sure if there is any truth to it or not?Either way whitetail deer will start more disagreements than any other game animal!!! Sleeps
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Post by fishinmachine on Mar 30, 2011 16:32:22 GMT -5
I agree with luckydevil,go to 3 on a side but there are still a lot of guys who want to shoot spikes,,I just hope the F@W doesn't change it back to spikes. In their presentation last nite the biologist said that the antler beam size for 2011 was larger than 2008 or 2009 which is a good thing,,,Dr. Haskel was using that as an excuse to change the current law,,,'course he ain't here no more
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Post by salmonslayer on Mar 30, 2011 16:55:38 GMT -5
I think alot of hunters want to shoot spikes because they feel they are a week breed and should be culled out of the herd, feeling they should be a 4 pointer at a year and a half if they have good genes. I'm not an expert so who knows, alot of fawns are being killed by haying tractors every year also.
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Mar 30, 2011 17:25:18 GMT -5
Oh ya boys I'm one of those wanna be spike horn shooters! No trophy hunting going on here! Just like to put a buck on the ground. Let the spike go then shoot his better growing brother with four points. Makes Sense. hmmmmmm I looking for some thanksgiving turkey now so the deer can live in peace for a few more months. Then Ill chase them around like the prey that they are. Yes I am a predator! ha ha ha
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Post by sonny88 on Mar 30, 2011 17:56:48 GMT -5
There's something to what Ben's saying. We are currently killing the genetically superior yearlings ( 4-6 pointers) and letting the inferior spikes walk and breed. While I don't think we should start shooting spikes again because i like seeing larger bucks in the woods, I would like to save the better yearlings. Slot limit???
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Post by fishinmachine on Mar 30, 2011 21:26:10 GMT -5
I think it should remain as is until they have enough data to make a scientific decision on the antler point restrictions,,,this may take 5 more years or so.,,,,they just don't have enough data yet.
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Post by luckydevil on Mar 31, 2011 7:52:07 GMT -5
I think alot of hunters want to shoot spikes because they feel they are a week breed and should be culled out of the herd, feeling they should be a 4 pointer at a year and a half if they have good genes. I'm not an expert so who knows, alot of fawns are being killed by haying tractors every year also. Here is an interesting thought. If these hunters want to shoot spikes because they are inferior, doesn't that mean they want to so that overall there are larger racks? Why not just let them grow up instead? There has been a ton of research that says a spike can have just as large a rack when he matures as a 3 pt or 4 pt. That is why I would like to keep the vast majority of 1.5 yr olds around by going to 3 on a side. I would much prefer a slot limit over no restrictions at all, but I would much rather see 3 pts on a side. If that did happen my hope would be that many people would continue to pass on spikes anyway.
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Mar 31, 2011 13:55:29 GMT -5
I think you AR guys are going to be the down fall of hunting in the US as many people will agree and I have read in many articles. But just keep watching those hunting shows and you will keep buying there crap! A young hunter could give a crap less about weather or not he shoots a six pointer or a spike horn(me included). Hunting numbers keep falling every year and that's the facts. If you guys want to shoot only fifteen pointers then do it!
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Post by maefly on Mar 31, 2011 15:36:40 GMT -5
Lets try this approach... 1 - Hire good deer biologist 2 - Cancel any and all hearings where arm chair biologist go and holler at the real biologist that actually went to school for it 3 - Tell biologist you have 4 years to fix the problem, clearly define a goal, and offer financial incentive to meet goal 4 - Do not tell the biologist how to fix the problem, because he/she is the biologist. 5 - Do what the biologist says for 4 years 6 - Do not bitch when the biologist says shoot more doe 7 - Do not bitch when the biologist says we have bigger problems than horns 8- In 4 years if your not happy with the results, fire the biologist and go back to the clusterf#$k that is VT deer management.
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Post by fishinmachine on Mar 31, 2011 20:14:01 GMT -5
I say give the biologists 10 years, and keep the politicians out of it
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