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Post by vthunter79 on Aug 23, 2011 11:54:13 GMT -5
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Aug 23, 2011 16:58:36 GMT -5
There is already a law on the books that does just that. It was put into affect when all the VAST snowmobile business took off. They do a lot on private land. A hunter , hiker or anyone for that fact can not sue someone for being on there land and getting hurt. unless the owner did something to cause the injury! But a lot of land owners use it as and excuse!
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Green Manalishi
Full Member
So I caught it...now what do you want me to do with it?
Posts: 86
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Post by Green Manalishi on Aug 23, 2011 16:59:05 GMT -5
That's exactly why land gets posted.
This looks like the hunter's insurance (if he has any) will not cover the medical expenses until the landowner's insurance is tapped. I've seen that happen in car accidents as well. The hunter may or may not have a choice.
There ought to be a law to protect the landowners from stupidity.
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Post by vthunter79 on Aug 23, 2011 17:21:08 GMT -5
I don't see this as an excuse at all. If I was a landowner; and I was dragged into court over something like this. I loose time at work, I've got out of pocket lawyer fees (that may or may not be re-imbursed)......I wouldn't blame someone for shutting off their land in the least. Even if they've never experienced something like this....it's enough for some to Post just so they never have to experience it. I only own 1/2 acre so I'm not in this situation.......if I owned more I wouldn't let anyone who isn't family or a close personal friend come anywhere near my property in this sue happy culture.
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Post by WildFisherWoman on Aug 25, 2011 13:21:48 GMT -5
That's just nuts. What a bunch of losers.
VT Landowner Liability Act protects landowners from stupids like these bozos....
I'm an advocate of posted property. Always have been. Always will be. If I buy 500 acres I will be dammed if I pay thousands in tax on that just so tom dick and harry can enjoy my land for free without picking up a chainsaw to help with land management or whatever in return for hunting "privilege".
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Post by bomber on Aug 25, 2011 14:47:15 GMT -5
Wildfisherwoman, I hope all hunters don't decide that posting all the property is a great policy. All hunters aren't assholes. Some of them are sportsmen.
If you own land and your near by I'll gladly help you with the clear cuts. We have 60 acres with food plots that isn't the best ground to hunt on but it isn't posted.
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Post by WildFisherWoman on Aug 26, 2011 12:41:12 GMT -5
Its just my opinion. The world is a shrinking place. Its getting to be a scary world out there. I know many people who posted their land because too many people hunt there without asking.. pushed out from loss of hunting spots due to posting else where. Hey.. its not posted.. permission not necessary... So... how do you feel.. when you are hunting.. and the only animals you see are 5 other hunters? I know it pisses me off personally.. Posting increases hunter safety as well success. If you know whos out there and where.. other hunters may not be so inclined to walk under your stand.. scaring out wildlife and putting themselves in the line of fire....Put them strategically.. increase success.. I would be less inclined to post property way out in the wilderness far from civilization where many of the lazy hunters will not venture. Sadly.. our wilderness areas are shrinking. as well as the places available for people to hunt. Yet again.. im a protect whats yours sort of person and since I dont own any property here in VT.. I really have nothing to complain about
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Post by inthewoods on Aug 26, 2011 15:20:10 GMT -5
A person can sue any other person for any reason. Winning the suit is a different question. Win or lose, the landowner being sued gets to pay for his own lawyer and whatever other expenses there are. VT doesn't have a "loser pays all expenses" frivolous lawsuit law. The landowner has to countersue in order get the other person to pay his expenses. That liability law you're talking about in VT hasn't been tested and was written to be so vague that it has enough loopholes in it to be worthless. Like every law it's subject to interpretation, which means two similar court cases might end up with different results. In the NH case, a good lawyer could convince a jury that the landowner didn't maintain or put proper warning on the tree stand and therefore the landowner was negligent. The same could happen in VT. If you post your land you have less of a chance being sued because the person suing had no legal right to be on the property. If you do get sued, you have a better chance of winning because posted signs also say no trespassing which is the equivalent of saying "stay off". Even with posted signs, you still have to take out an umbrella liability insurance policy. Homeowner insurance just doesn't cut it. It's a sad state of affairs and it's really not just about hunting. According to what I've read about the NH thing, it's gotten worse because now an invitation has somehow opened a door to allow a lawsuit. From what I've heard, if I invite some people to ride 4-wheelers on my property, in the court's eyes, I've somehow set expectations of safety which makes me directly liable if something happens. It used to be this only happened if money exchanged hands.
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Aug 26, 2011 18:53:16 GMT -5
what ever in the woods, post it all! , live your life paranoid! Where do you people come up with this stuff? Man I think you guys and gals need to get out into the country and relax! This is doesn't sound like someone that is a Vermont native talking here! Some people like to hunt where other people hunt! It gets the deer moving! Hence then people shoot them. Wild fisher woman there is like one incident every year and usually they are not hunting accidents. They are just people with guns out screwing around and shoot each other. Hunter to hunter accidents are so few and far between you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning. Stalking a turkey is a good way to get shot and I see people do that all the time! idiots!! Being that you don't own land I would be careful what you wish for. You may not have any place to hunt yourself! ok done with my rant! enjoy the hurricane! I hope it blows every poster off every tree! ha ha Nothing personal just giving you my oppinion buckshot
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Post by WildFisherWoman on Aug 26, 2011 20:50:41 GMT -5
I def dont live in paranoia!!! I dont worry about crap like gettin shot n stuff. Im just not a people person and want to hang out in the woods and not b bothered. If I were serious about that id move to Alaska or BC. Im also all 100 percent bred n born on the farm and use the woods to relax. I have piles of places to hunt. What posted signs? I dont see no posted signs??
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Green Manalishi
Full Member
So I caught it...now what do you want me to do with it?
Posts: 86
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Post by Green Manalishi on Aug 28, 2011 1:58:16 GMT -5
Some thoughts:
1. Like locks, posted signs only keep honest folks out.
2. A large portion of legislative types do not understand the economic, societal or ecological benefits to hunting. They don't see the fundamental error of allowing landowners to be sued in cases like this.
3. A person should be allowed to be free from trespassers on private land, or even "spot stealers" or "crowders" on public land. I live in a state where crowding is an issue, and in order to maintain the peace, we typically are apologetic when we happen on someone in a tree stand or a duck blind, because it is inevitable that you will. Some are happy to have you drive the game to them. Others want the challenge of beating the critter in a natural setting. When I hunt up in NH or VT, I have more space to avoid people and will typically park at least a mile away from another vehicle...and I expect other hunters to do the same. But I'll happily set up a duck blind in a swamp knowing that each blind shooting will move birds around.
4. Were I a landowner with a huntable piece of property in my state (almost was until the economy tanked), I would post my land properly with a contact number and require a signed "Hold Harmless" agreement, in writing, prior to allowing someone to hunt my land. Up north, I may or may not, depending on the culture of the area.
5. Most hunting accidents occur out of the extreme desire to fill a tag, to fufill some inadequacy or bow to peer pressure. That's a culture issue, not a hunting issue. There's no excuse for stupid!
6. Asking permission is easy. Rejection doesn't kill you. And if you get permission, suing your permitter without just cause hurts everyone, including you...because I wouldn't allow you on my land knowing that you sued a landowner due to your own stupidity.
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Post by bomber on Aug 28, 2011 9:30:40 GMT -5
Go to the National Forest Land, walk 5 miles into the mountains and don't worry about posters or being shot by your fellow hunter. I've been hunting for 50 years and have never been shot at or feared for my life. This thread makes it sound like your in danger if you walk in the woods. Could be shot or the land owner sued. So what if another hunter walks by your stand on occasion, I will say hi to them and hope they get something.
Get off the beaten path and stop worrying. Enjoy the woods and your fellow hunter when you happen to meet them in the woods. We all want the same thing.
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Post by mikep on Aug 30, 2011 22:38:53 GMT -5
Well said Bomber.
I also grew up hunting the readsboro, somerset area, my Vermont family got many large bucks out of the somerset area. Thing is we hunted about three miles in the woods. Most hunters, many from MA, would hunt along the edges and I never saw another hunter in the woods further than a mile. This was and is all national forest.
As for posting, if people have an attitude to post their land , then I don't want them hunting on mine. In fact I wonder about the hypocrisy of a land owner posting his land and having no reservations about hunting on others land.
Realistically , not many hunters own land and to not share your land with others is selfish. As a life long Vermonter I object to the massive posting that I have watched develop over the past five decades. I still prefer large tracts of state land or federal land which from my house I can walk out my back door go up or around spruce mountain and get lost in the groton forest...still very rare to see a hunter.
I believe the Vermont Land Owners Liability Act does protect landowners from frivolous suits but would like to know the specifics if someone on this forum really knows this law. The dubious legislature we have should protect the landowner from any suit a jerk person who calls himself a hunter may try to bring for any reason.
MikeP Plainfield
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Sept 1, 2011 16:30:26 GMT -5
Well put Mike P and Bomber!
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Post by bassgeek (Brock) on Sept 5, 2011 8:53:09 GMT -5
The farm I hunt on is posted. The woman who owns it, posted it over 15 years ago now. I was the only person who used to ask her permission to hunt it before she posted it. Yes I saw several other hunters out there. One of the few years we had early snow here in the Champlain Valley she was out cross country skiing with her family when a group of hunters were conducting a drive on her property. When she asked them why they had not asked her permission they told her they did not have to because it was not posted. When she asked them to please leave, they said they did not have to, because the property was not posted. Guess what, the property was posted the next year and has been ever since. Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies.
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