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Post by salmoneye on Jul 10, 2009 13:55:33 GMT -5
last year's numbers show that the total revenue for the LCI was $433,008......The Net fund balance at the end of that year was $233,491. The net fund balance includes all assets: From the 2008 Form 990: Line 15 Total Revenue: $433,008 Line 17 Total Expenses: $400,723 Line 19 Net Assets Beginning Year: $191,206 Line 21 Net Assets End Of Year: $233,491 This means there was a 'leftover' after all derbies, salaries and expenses of $32,285 for fiscal 2008...
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Post by allspecies on Jul 10, 2009 14:10:16 GMT -5
Line 17 Total expenses ($400,723.00)includes $154,557.00 in salaries $95,070.00 in prizes for the 2008 derby $114,781.00 for (derby operation, insurance, bank service, show expenses, automobile expenses, Dues and Subscription, office supplies, utilities, miscellaneous, professional fees, registration booklets, meals, sponsors expense, marketing, and outside services) $882.00 for education/outreach That leaves the $32,285 that was added to the LCI derby savings account bringing that bank account total to $223,491.00. It looks like the 2008 derby returned 22% of revenue to the participants, 36% to salary, 27% to run the derby, 7.5% was saved and 0.2% to education/outreach...... and none to Lake Champlain work? That's how I read it, but others should give it a look as well. Also some anomalies on line 93 of the three years of 990 forms. It looks like there was a major drop in registration $$ between 2007 and 2008 by more than 50%. Did the derby used to get 14,000 anglers (in 2007) and now gets 7,000 (2008).... I don't know the answer to that? Lots more in these documents but they are all 20 pages.
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Post by bomber on Jul 10, 2009 14:24:56 GMT -5
Digitroll, perhaps you can provide some numbers as to what the LCI is giving back to benefit Lake Champlain?
Thanks
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Post by frankpetrosino on Jul 10, 2009 14:50:21 GMT -5
Mr. Don Chioffi (a/k/a donsreelsports), As you know, I am a board member of Lake Champlain International, Inc. (since 2001). I write this to you solely as a board member; though to be fair to all who read this, I am also an attorney by trade and an owner of the law firm of Paul Frank + Collins. We have already exchanged correspondence regarding your apparently reckless disregard for the truth when you referred to Lake Champlain International, Inc. as a “swindle” in a recent article in Sam’s Good News, a Rutland periodical. You have wisely agreed to prominently retract your untrue statement, and I look forward to reading it. You have chosen to use this forum to question if and how Lake Champlain International, Inc. spends the money it generates. This is a legitimate question, to be sure; however, many of your comments on this forum and elsewhere contain irresponsible inaccuracies that are easily verifiable (such as James Ehlers’ ownership of Outdoors Magazine) and are belligerent beyond reason. Contrary to your allegations, you have always been able to obtain Lake Champlain International, Inc.’s federal tax returns. We have told you repeatedly since April 2008 that you could come to our Colchester office and pick up the returns. Alternatively, we told you where to find them online and offered to mail them to you so long as you covered the cost of copying and mailing. You chose to do none of those things. For some reason, you expressed a fear of coming to our office; such fear is unfounded (we are generally a very friendly lot unless you attack us). You were unwilling to reimburse us for the cost of mailing our tax returns to you. All of this is documented in an email exchange with you from that time (we still retain copies of them). You even failed to go online to get them (as you now know, they are at www2.guidestar.org/ReportNonProfit.aspx?ein=03-0360467&Mode=NonGx&lid=715812&dl=True (free registration required) and www.eri-nonprofit-salaries.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=NPO.Form990&EIN=030360467&Year=2006&Cobrandid=0&sourceid). Instead, you chose to make unfounded remarks about Lake Champlain International, Inc. without doing even basic research. You have also been invited to Lake Champlain International, Inc. board meetings (one board member even offered you a ride). You did not accept this offer. Lake Champlain International, Inc. is a tax exempt charitable organization. Its primary purpose is to conserve, restore, and revitalize the Lake Champlain watershed and its communities (what you would refer to as the “resource”) through events and education. Though we do support other charities financially, most of the money that Lake Champlain International, Inc. generates through its derbies and fundraising efforts goes towards supporting Lake Champlain’s own initiatives to protect the resource. What you fail to realize is that all of the money Lake Champlain International, Inc. generates goes to protect the resource in one way or another. You have seen the list of Lake Champlain International, Inc.’s recent accomplishments and initiatives. You apparently think that it is cheap to achieve these accomplishments and promote these initiatives and that it all can be done with volunteers; you couldn’t be farther from the truth. For example, undertaking the Swanton dam removal project (one of our initiatives) easily runs into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. As far as the numbers go, we have nothing to hide. Our federal tax returns are readily available, and always have been. We understand that tax returns are not the easiest documents to read (what tax returns ever are?), and we are very willing to answer questions about specific items on our returns and how they benefit Lake Champlain. You and anyone reading this letter are more than welcome to contact me ( fpetrosino@pfclaw.com) or our Executive Director James Ehlers ( james@mychamplain.net) directly. Many of the people reading this already know how to reach our Executive Director and have done so in the past on other issues; for some reason, they fail to do so now. I find this curious. James Ehlers is quite accessible, especially for a man with his schedule. If you want to make an appointment with James, he will gladly sit down with you at a mutually convenient time and location to discuss Lake Champlain International, Inc.’s financial performance and the work that it does to help and protect Lake Champlain. Despite your reckless behavior at times, you are also still welcome to attend a board meeting, and this comes at the urging of James Ehlers (despite your personal attacks on him). You should note that the board is quite pleased to have the talents, skills, experience, and dedication of James Ehlers at our service, particularly given how sought-after he is by for-profit firms where the financial benefits to him far surpass what we can offer him. If you have a legitimate complaint about Lake Champlain International, Inc.’s finances, then feel free to call the Vermont Attorney General’s office or the Internal Revenue Service. We are more than willing to undergo the scrutiny of any government entity and those whom we serve. This Internet forum, however, is not the place for doing such, especially after you have falsely accused us, without any research (never mind proof), of illegally handling our finances. Sincerely, Frank Petrosino Lake Champlain International, Inc Board Member
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Post by salmoneye on Jul 10, 2009 14:58:28 GMT -5
Thank you Mr. Petrosino...
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Post by Silver Fox on Jul 10, 2009 15:01:51 GMT -5
Thank you Mr Petrosino for your reply. Now maybe we can all get back to fishing, and talking about fishing on this forum. Please.
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Post by bomber on Jul 10, 2009 15:06:22 GMT -5
Frank, I have fished the LCI for around 15 years and hope to fish it another 15 years.
The reason this post started were statements that the LCI has gotten very expensive to participate in.
Many members of this forum also wanted to know that based on the cost to enter the LCI something was being given back to help the lake. We all know that James Ehlers is a hard working sportsman, working for sportsman's interest. I would expect that James would receive a good salary for the work that he does.
Can you provide a summary of the projects that the LCI has contributed to? I am not a tax accountant and could never understand a 22 page document.
Believe me, I enjoy the LCI and want to see it receive a clean bill of health.
Thank You
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Post by mikep on Jul 10, 2009 16:19:44 GMT -5
Frank , it was real good to hear from someone related to the LCI finally.
I assume you will provide Bomber with the list of projects you support for 2007 and 2008 and also the actual cash outlays for each project. Is there any way you can post your audited financial statements as well. As a professional serving the public, you must appreciate how important it is for full disclosure of basic information that is being asked for here. People who contribute to the LCI need to feel confident in it and its wiliness to share. Ease of access to information is another issue , meaning most of us would like to show up in Jim's office but it would be better and cheaper for you if you could send it to us all electronically.
The list of expenditures posted here from the 990's for FY 2008 show virtually no contribution of cash by the LCI for any effort of others outside of your entity of any significance to the untrained eye. In other words except for the cost of your staff, its apparent from the 990s nothing much gets paid from your financial statements to help the lake and environment. Are you essentially a lobbyist entity that gathers other people to make contributions of labor or what and how is that valued.
What for example are you talking about when you say the Swanton Dam initiatives costs thousands of dollars, obviously it is not clear there has been any cash outlay for this from the LCI. Yet you suggest its expensive, for whom is my question.
In the Gazzette you claim successful efforts sustaining lamprey control, so exactly what is it that you do. Do you contribute cash, contribute staff hours , how much and how many.
funds and contributions you have launched include per the Gazette, : Champlain Fisheries Recovery Fund ; Fishing Club Grants, Fishing for Friends. In 2007 and 2008 what cash contributions did you make to these funds and others and what contributions did you make to the fishing for Friends entity.
You made the effort to say you are willing to withstand any scrutiny from compliance people, but isn't that a little much when no one is saying or suggesting you are fraudulent , but they just want a simple answer as to what your financial operations are and what your output is. You did not quote any numbers which is what people have asked for. Its all memorialized Frank, lets get on the ball.
thanks Frank in advance for responding positively to these questions for those in this forum.
Mike Pollica Plainfield
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Post by donsreelsports on Jul 10, 2009 17:10:35 GMT -5
Thank you ---finally---Frank Petrocino---for "coming out" here with your reply. I sincerely do apprecioate that you made the effort to do this, is spite of your continuing characterization of my remarks and inquiries in such a negative light. I believe Mike Pollica summed up most of the thousands of angler's questioning concerns---including mine. And if you think HE is being unreasonable in his concerns, then you should answer them HERE, not invite me, or him, or anyone else to some private shmoozing session. I am not, nor ever have been interested in that---I do not want to socialize with you, even though I have no doubt that you are a decent person and feel you have a mission. You are dead wrong if you think that this forum is not the proper place to post both the financial information and the answers to legitimate questions that anglers that support you have. That way, and that way alone, will hundreds or thousands have access to the data in a quick and easy manner without attending meetings, or poring over 22 pages of tax data, or listening to a pitch about how important it is to attend conferences etc etc etc. We know that is important, but that is NOT what we are questioning. I refer to Mike P. again.........
Again, Frank, you continually refer to "contacting the Attorney General or the IRS"---what the sam hill do you think this is all about? Not running off to Accapulco with the cash for a trist, I hope. All anyone, including me have said (or intimated) is that you have given the impression to all of us for years that you are contributing a large portion of the REVENUES to the preservation and improvement of the resource. Anyone looking at the breakdown given by those who have seen the 990, can easily see that that is simply NOT true in terms of any significant %. To me, that seems like I am being misled by statements that are not supported by the numbers. As far as all the other stuff, as a writer I didn't feel that it should have been too difficult for you to send me the whole 22 pages----long ago----and I would have simply shared that information with my readers, not sanitized it or characterized it, or referred to it----just laid it out there for them to see and make their own judgements. I am NOT saying that anyone associated with the LCI is anything but a decent, honest person, and, as I have told you, I will apologize even more publicly than right here by saying that it was poor judgement on my part to choose the word "swindle", as it was certainly not my intent to imply that any legal wrongdoing was ever taking place. I was always led to believe that there were many more actual dollars going into the resource, and finding out that there weren't really disturbed me. Please read the upcoming edition of SAMS----the retraction will be placed in the same location and in the same type and manner as the original----unlike most publications which bury all their mistakes on page 35 at the bottom. And thank you again for responding here.
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Post by tamiron on Jul 10, 2009 17:45:08 GMT -5
Mr. Petrosino:
Thank you for your link! It is as you say! Unfortunately too much passed, before this link was provided. The registration, free, provided a clear 990 detailed (all 22 pages) perfectly outlining the detail, item by item, and all the answers to the questions asked.
Granted the value gets lost, initially, when scanning for a specific payout that would give you a warm and fuzzy feeling. But the detail of the expenses, the stated purpose and the actual achievement of that purpose are there and met!
Now if people don't understand tax forms or insist on a silver bullet, it is easy to get lost.
As I recommended on the other thread ... its time to go fishing!
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Post by fishinmachine on Jul 10, 2009 19:17:58 GMT -5
sorry, tamiron, I still dont buy it.mikep asked the right questions and they go unanswered.
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Post by donsreelsports on Jul 10, 2009 20:05:16 GMT -5
tamiron---you say in one breath that it is hard (actually it is not hard--it is impossible) to get a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about any large numbers of dollars going to the resource---- then you turn around and say that you got the same "warm and fuzzy feeling" about all the "good intention statements" and "missions achieved" ?? I'm having a real hard time figuring out just what it is that makes you feel so good about the "other stuff in the report". Like Mike P and fishinmachine said----there are just NO big dollars going back to the Lake----and that's what we all thought was supposed to be happening.
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Post by bomber on Jul 10, 2009 20:14:10 GMT -5
Tamiron, can you share with the rest of us what you saw in the report that shows that the LCI is contributing to Lake Champlain?
I'm looking for some numbers.
Thanks
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Post by buckshot (Ben) on Jul 10, 2009 20:24:00 GMT -5
All I heard from mr lawyer was a bunch of bla bla bla, no meat and potatoes. Where's the beef? We had legitament questions and none were anwered. I didn't see anything that gave me any feeling of ease on the subject. Tameron when did we stop fishing. ha ha I got a nice brown and my son got two tonight. just small ones. No matter what the heck is going on here you can expect that my lines are in the water everyday. Im not just a fisherman I am a fishaholic. ha ha good luck to all the fisherman this weekend, don't forget the sunscreen.
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Post by An Bradon Charters on Jul 10, 2009 20:56:25 GMT -5
Frank , it was real good to hear from someone related to the LCI finally. I assume you will provide Bomber with the list of projects you support for 2007 and 2008 and also the actual cash outlays for each project. Is there any way you can post your audited financial statements as well. As a professional serving the public, you must appreciate how important it is for full disclosure of basic information that is being asked for here. People who contribute to the LCI need to feel confident in it and its wiliness to share. Ease of access to information is another issue , meaning most of us would like to show up in Jim's office but it would be better and cheaper for you if you could send it to us all electronically. The list of expenditures posted here from the 990's for FY 2008 show virtually no contribution of cash by the LCI for any effort of others outside of your entity of any significance to the untrained eye. In other words except for the cost of your staff, its apparent from the 990s nothing much gets paid from your financial statements to help the lake and environment. Are you essentially a lobbyist entity that gathers other people to make contributions of labor or what and how is that valued. What for example are you talking about when you say the Swanton Dam initiatives costs thousands of dollars, obviously it is not clear there has been any cash outlay for this from the LCI. Yet you suggest its expensive, for whom is my question. In the Gazzette you claim successful efforts sustaining lamprey control, so exactly what is it that you do. Do you contribute cash, contribute staff hours , how much and how many. funds and contributions you have launched include per the Gazette, : Champlain Fisheries Recovery Fund ; Fishing Club Grants, Fishing for Friends. In 2007 and 2008 what cash contributions did you make to these funds and others and what contributions did you make to the fishing for Friends entity. You made the effort to say you are willing to withstand any scrutiny from compliance people, but isn't that a little much when no one is saying or suggesting you are fraudulent , but they just want a simple answer as to what your financial operations are and what your output is. You did not quote any numbers which is what people have asked for. Its all memorialized Frank, lets get on the ball. thanks Frank in advance for responding positively to these questions for those in this forum. Mike Pollica Plainfield Mike interesting and valid questions. Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
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