|
Post by fishinmachine on Sept 12, 2009 7:03:02 GMT -5
ok. 66 boats x 150 = $9000 and they paid out $8000, not bad, too bad they don't do the same thing for the fathers day derby
|
|
|
Post by buckshot (Ben) on Sept 12, 2009 7:58:07 GMT -5
Do people donate time to FLW bass tours and the other major tournaments or do they pay the people as employees.
|
|
|
Post by mikep on Sept 12, 2009 18:00:47 GMT -5
Just noticed in the 2006 and 2007 990 (end sept. 30, 2008) that the program service revenue fell from $284,858 to $130,513. I think program service revenue is the registration fees for the derbies. I posted this the other day and sent an email to the attention of Jim Elhers last Thursday asking what the story is here. No response yet. Many posts here have said Jim will respond to email and I am waiting to see and will post response here. On the LCI site I could not find Jims personal email.
This is a major decline in revenues which may come for the lack of registrations perhaps due to the shrinking prize payouts and awareness of fishermen that prize payout is full of doubtful value. such as the seventh place my boat got in the salmon category last year. Two of us got a bag full of throw aways , but you know its better than nothing in one respect.
Prize payouts in cash paid by the LCi declined from 215, 000 in 2006 to 95,00 in 2007. this is cash from their account. So maybe the sharp decline in program service revenue (registrations) had them , scratching for some way to compensate for revenue loss.
Early in this discussion the LCi in a email to a forum member said it would produce accounting changes and quantification of efforts made to help the lake, and that it would be furnished to a forum member toward the end of the fiscal year which is September 30. I am waiting to see it.
Some here have said that those of us who ask questions don't deal with facts, but I hope they realize there has been no facts from the LCi about all this discussion we have been having. it just does not make sense. Frankly I wonder how a non profit like this can think its ok to ignore its supporters who fish and want to believe in it.
Certainly they should post their budget and quantified program efforts on their site, but they don't. this way you could see the amount of cash donations to the third parties, their use of cash, and other boots on the ground contribution they may or not make beyond token contributions they do make , and be able to judge for yourself if you want to believe. MikeP
|
|
|
Post by bomber on Sept 12, 2009 19:21:05 GMT -5
The LCI lawyer promised me a full accounting letter in September. I'm still waiting.
I emailed one of the other folks involved in the LCI a few days ago but have received no reply as of yet.
Suggested they clear the air with a full accounting but I feel its going to be stonewalling.
As Mikep mentioned fishermen make or break the LCI.
|
|
|
Post by fishinmachine on Sept 12, 2009 20:40:53 GMT -5
don't hold your breath
|
|
|
Post by An Bradon Charters on Sept 12, 2009 23:30:57 GMT -5
Mike, You, Bomber, Fishmachine as well as many many others bring up valid points. I applaud you for staying on the issue and not just letting it go by the wayside. As I have said before, I a while back decided not to support the LCI. But I can say I find this thread interesting in seeing what questions that are asked get answered. Guy from BBY said he was going to get the answers to questions asked, and post them here. Nothing yet. You said you contacted the lci directly? Looking forward to hearing there response. Keep there feet to the fire. You have raised some great questions and it appears to me at least that you have not received an appropriate response. Good Luck. Keep us posted. Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
|
|
|
Post by mikep on Sept 13, 2009 10:07:39 GMT -5
Captain, right I have not received a response from my email. I just had one question about the sharp decline of program service revenue asking what is it and why the decline. I think its registrations that indicate from 2006 to 2007 (end Sept. 2008) the number of registrants dropped by half in dollars , so I am very curious about that since the LCI never indicated in their publications that registrations fell off that much. it is reflected in the over 50 percent decline in cash paid from their accounts for prize payouts, but it is only they who know what is going on or what actually happened to explain the sharp decline in program service revenue.
they also apparently receive grants and gifts from others and I would like to know what Government Agencies contribute (if any) and what the grants expect them to do.
And too I was very surprised that the Burlington boat yard said they would get answers to our financial and program concerns but dropped out. Notably the Boat yard did manage to contact Brian Chipman to check up on my discussion with Brian about the fact that the LCi does not contribute dollars to the lamprey program. so they confirmed something I did, but nothing that the LCi does. What is that about? It was shocker to me to learn they do not contribute cash to lamprey control. They would not say it, but Brian chipman provided the facts.
Again, it makes no sense to me. The Boat yard advertises on its web site that it will get answers from the LCi on even the smallest questions. So my question is what is going on that they cant follow through on their web pledge and there pledge on this forum?
The questions are pretty basic , not rocket science, would not take much to answer , but would explain the nature of the business model they follow.
Like Bomber said it is fishermen who fund their options. It is our choice to get into their tournaments, we get a product, all is fair but since they rely on fishermen for cash, and they are a non-profit, we want to know what they do with the choices they have with the revenue they produce, especially as far as hard projects, donations to others, prize payouts, so we can make an informed choice as to whether to participate or not. It seems to me this group of fishermen on this forum who want an answer (some don't) deserve a modicum of respect from the LCI in the form of a response on this forum.
We all know from the 990 that they consume most of the funds through supporting themselves in their effort to lobby for the lake. they count meetings and lamprey petitions, appointments by the governor, as accomplishments makes me realize they are primarily an advocate. I just want them to say it. They deal in the art of persuasion but I wonder how much they influence other Agencies including the federal government, the state in the activities those Agencies already pursue.
They should improve their attitude towards public responses, such as on this forum.
What contributions do they make annually. I do notice when they discuss contributions to the mentoring program they cite cumulative years which makes the numbers look bigger, example is the mentoring program where they credit fishermen with contributing 27,000 in three short years. While in those years (2005, 2007, 2007) their revenue was about 1,400,000 (2005 estimated at 400K) , so they contributed just under two percent for the period. I think the trickle down theory is at work here, that is a dribble when it goes out of the LCI faucet into others buckets. its a great image but no beef.
When you think of it, this whole idea of trying to get the LCi to talk is silly. Its just silly they behave like this. MikeP
|
|
|
Post by donsreelsports on Sept 14, 2009 8:42:35 GMT -5
Non-Profits all over the country have been guilty of slick marketing---where people who contribute think their money is going to one thing and then find out that a very disproportionate amount is going to ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS and that only a pittance of their contributions are actually going to the causes that are advertised. The most blatant of these abuses have the executives of some of the non profits flying all over the world on "missions" supposedly related to the "causes" and consuming hundreds of thousands of dollars in perks and other "benefits". the ruse that these shady groups use is to try and get into your head emotionally by portraying the poor, the downtrodden, the starving, etc, and try and get in to your head and guilt you into paying some "feel good" money into their coffers. People are usually shocked when they find out that they have been duped and played for fools, but there's not much they can do but shake their heads in dismay. LCI, by avoiding simple answers to simple questions, stonewalling, and taking an elitist attitude toward fishermen that support them, does nothing to instill any confidence at all in their motives, their distribution of the funds, or their general operating methods----especially public realtions.
|
|
|
Post by fishinmachine on Sept 22, 2009 6:13:23 GMT -5
sept. 22 and still no response from lci as promised
|
|
|
Post by mikep on Sept 24, 2009 9:40:22 GMT -5
I sent an email to the LCI asking about the apparent program service revenue decline from $284,858 to $130,513 from fiscal year 2007 to fiscal year 2008. This is the way it was reported on the 990. This is registration income primarily.
I got a full response to my question via email from Gallagher Flynn and Company the Accounting firm who prepares the tax returns for lake Champlain International. As it turns out the method of reporting was changed from 2007 to 2008 so comparing numbers for registration could not be done. The firm reported gross revenue in 2007 and net revenue for registrations in 2008. So the comparative numbers are per GF that registration income was $282210 in fiscal 2007 and $283885 in fiscal 2008. Program service revenue includes add sales of 2648 in 2007, thus the total of 284, 858 in 2007.
net revenues for 2008 means that certain expenses in the amount of 153,372 (primarily prizes and other minor expenses) where deducted from revenue and reported net of related expenses.
Bottom line is the LCI did not suffer a major decline in registrations and the prize money total payout is much greater in 2008 than the 95,070 that shows on the 990. So there was probably an increase in 2008 in prize payments over the 214,000 reported in 2007. This would need confirmation by the LCI, since the 990 reports are not apples to apples.
All this is confusing if one is trying to compare apples to apples. So, Gallagher Flynn is going to change back to the 2007 method and report gross revenues this year ,2009, which will make the year to year comparisons possible and provide more detail in expenses. In one sense our asking questions has helped the reporting process.
I feel now since I got a response that LCI will answer any questions if you directly communicate with them. its truly a plus an accounting firm is involved with the reporting. I don't plan to ask any more directly of the LCI since I think I understand their business model which is simply a lot different than I once thought.
I still hope the LCI will come on this forum and explain the basic questions some of us have , and that it will make its commitment to report to one of the forum members as outlined on this thread.
MikeP
|
|
|
Post by salmoneye on Sept 24, 2009 11:14:56 GMT -5
Thanks Mike...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2009 11:26:25 GMT -5
Well done and thanks for the clarifications Mike.
|
|
|
Post by Dockside (Ben) on Sept 24, 2009 16:32:38 GMT -5
Wow........
|
|
|
Post by An Bradon Charters on Sept 24, 2009 20:09:13 GMT -5
Spend your money where you are comfortable. Support those who you want to spend your money on. Ask questions. Make your own decisions. If you think you are being snowballed or are not comfortable with the particular organization pull your support. There are many groups that are genuine Non profit groups that are in desperate need of funds. Bottom line do your homework and spend your money as you see fit. Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
|
|
|
Post by fishinmachine on Sept 25, 2009 3:41:13 GMT -5
mikep , if you understand their business model please explain it to us.I certainly don't understand it and I'm sure there are a lot of others that don"t either, thanks,frank
|
|