|
Post by rvq on Feb 4, 2011 11:13:25 GMT -5
See ya later -bye. Bob
|
|
|
Post by An Bradon Charters on Feb 4, 2011 15:31:05 GMT -5
I would suggest doing your own research on this. Why should Bob or Brock or I look things up for you? You seem to be interested in it a lot more than we are. As far as your PM goes, we support different organizations from Make A Wish to the Howard Center to the LCI Next Generation Fund. Amounts will vary depending on participation and expenses/sponsor support. I am done with this thread. In reading Brock's post, it is clear where you are coming from. Bill,Apparently you did not read my post. I was asking for them as well as you to show where these studies have been done on Champlain. I did do my research and come up with NOTHING on Champlain. Once again that is my point. There have been no studies to my knowledge about the effects of Tournaments on Lake Champlain. It is a very simple concept. I find it disappointing that people such as yourself are NOT interested in it. I would think and hope you would also want to see if there were any ill effects form these tournaments. Maybe there is not any. But as I have said before. Since no studies have been done and each year we see more and more tournaments, is there/will there be any effects??? In regards to the pm. Thank you for the information. I tried to find that information on your site but is not there. Sure does seem like you guys are very sensitive Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
|
|
|
Post by schodackbassman on Feb 4, 2011 20:38:56 GMT -5
I guess I will use this hypothetical analogy. A group of medical professionals do research in say for example, Ohio, regarding how a certain protein helps a test group of people avoid the common cold. Thorough research is done and result show (hypothetically we are talking) that out a group of 1000 adult males that taking this protein proved that it helped 80% of them to not get a cold. Now, it is safe to assume (and yes assumption are made in science) that if that same study was conducted in, oh lets just throw it out there, NY that the results would statistically be the same. But there are some folks, who have a hard time with concepts, that won't believe the results of the study done in Ohio even though the circumstances are the same, because the study wasn't conducted in their immediate neighborhood. It's their right to not believe the study results but it doesn't make it right or is it logical. And those presenting that individual with the study information realize at some point that no amount of discussion is going to convince that person that the results of the study conducted in Ohio is relative to the situation in NY. So the conversation ends. The end.
|
|
|
Post by An Bradon Charters on Feb 4, 2011 21:17:47 GMT -5
I guess I will use this hypothetical analogy. A group of medical professionals do research in say for example, Ohio, regarding how a certain protein helps a test group of people avoid the common cold. Thorough research is done and result show (hypothetically we are talking) that out a group of 1000 adult males that taking this protein proved that it helped 80% of them to not get a cold. Now, it is safe to assume (and yes assumption are made in science) that if that same study was conducted in, oh lets just throw it out there, NY that the results would statistically be the same. But there are some folks, who have a hard time with concepts, that won't believe the results of the study done in Ohio even though the circumstances are the same, because the study wasn't conducted in their immediate neighborhood. It's their right to not believe the study results but it doesn't make it right or is it logical. And those presenting that individual with the study information realize at some point that no amount of discussion is going to convince that person that the results of the study conducted in Ohio is relative to the situation in NY. So the conversation ends. The end. I have to disagree. We are not talking about medical issues. I am aware you are using an analogy. My Very SIMPLE point remains. Why not embrace the study and or studies of ALL tournaments on LAKE CHAMPLAIN to see if there is ANY impact on the fishery, Good or Bad? I do not understand why mostly Bass guys are not for this? You guys boggle my mind. If you all are really interested in the fishery which by the way Snobbinbasscat is NOT per his own post. Then why not try to get the information that pertains exclusively to Champlain??? Other bodies of water Although maybe the same are NOT the same. If a loved one was ill and you got a not so great prognosis from your general practitioner, Would you not seek out someone who is an expert on that particular ailment? You want to use analogies. Fine by me. But once again I find it interesting that it is mostly bass guys that, since they read that tournaments have no adverse affect elsewhere that it must be OK for Champlain. I suppose many of you are short minded and forgot what happened to the over fishing Of Walleye on Champlain?? It was once thought that the lake could sustain itself in regards to Walleye. We sadly we all paid the price for that mistake. And thanks to Sportsman as well as the LCWA things are getting better. Instead of accepting what you read form other places. Why not focus on what is around you? Come on guys stop with the over sensitivity, step up and lets get the facts whatever they may be? It will be a benefit for generations to come. Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
|
|
|
Post by fishinmachine on Feb 5, 2011 5:35:55 GMT -5
A little while ago on this forum a thread stated that New Hampshire had done a study of altantic landlocked salmon in NH lakes, Well, I bought the paper and read it, It was a study that was conducted in almost all the lakes in NH that held atlantic salmon over a period of decades,,ONE thing MOST apparent from reading this study(it was like a magazine) was that every lake in the study was different. In other words, the results for mortality from fishing,from using single hooks,to water temp,to water clarity, to age of fish caught, everything was specific to individual lakes,,soooo why shouldn't lake champlain be different too?,,,so why not accept and even encourage a study done on lake champlain on fish mortality from angling? whether its bass or salmon or lakers we should all encourage these studys to be done and then use this data to regulate the fishery.
|
|
|
Post by bassgeek (Brock) on Feb 5, 2011 7:57:23 GMT -5
I never said I had a problem with the research being done. Knowledge is a good thing, I would rather see the money used for more important things like more or better access to the lake. I realize that the money that is earmarked for a study probably could not be used for anything else. I don't see how you can say that we do not care about the fishery just because we don't not feel that a study is necessary. Remember that all of us that do fish tournaments would be well within our legal rights to take home all five fish we bring to weigh in.
|
|
|
Post by harkness on Feb 5, 2011 9:51:37 GMT -5
That is all they were doing asking where you caught them?? Does not sound like much to me.Maybe you could provide some more specific information on exactly what they were asking as well as other data they may have collected? Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.comOK. Here goes. I will be specific... Them:"What section(s) of the lake did you catch your fish in?" Me:(Pointing at the proper section)"This one" Specific enough? snobbin - forget about "capt" tony - he's clearly got a hardon for bass tourneys as you can see in any of his other dozen posts bashing them.. fact is tourneys arent going nowhere theyre here to stay and the countless (and I mean hundreds) of scientific research article ritten on whether they hurt bass populations clearly show no impact AT THE GRAND, LAKE WIDE POPULASHION SCALE. sure maybe a bass doesnt get put back next to the same weed stalk it was caught from (im rolling on the floor laughing ), but compared to whats removed each year by meat fishermen, its nothing. BASS (Bass Anglers Sportman Society) since the 70's has done more to promote catch and release ethic than any other group. maybe "capt" tony should start in on the commercial panfish guys or the hundreds of dead northerns i see littering the ice from all the drunk yahoos on missisquoi bay every weekend
|
|
|
Post by harkness on Feb 5, 2011 9:55:49 GMT -5
I did not say that there were any post tournament mortality studies done on Lake Champlain. I said that there have been many studies done on this subject on other lakes in the US. Try the Google without Vermont in it. I'll repeat , yet again, that there are some legitimate gripes against bass tournaments, but I don't feel that there is any hard evidence of them causing a depletion in the bass population. Bob give it up rvq - you cant drill anything into that thick head of his - he can read or comprihend simple logic - even i knew you werent talking about vermont there hasnt been studies on champlain, but if scientists had to repeat every study just to make sure that it applied to there lake .... after theyre done with Champlain they better do the same study on Magog and Bomoseen and Carmi and the little mud hole down the road because it could be differnt ;D
|
|
|
Post by harkness on Feb 5, 2011 10:00:59 GMT -5
I guess I will use this hypothetical analogy. A group of medical professionals do research in say for example, Ohio, regarding how a certain protein helps a test group of people avoid the common cold. Thorough research is done and result show (hypothetically we are talking) that out a group of 1000 adult males that taking this protein proved that it helped 80% of them to not get a cold. Now, it is safe to assume (and yes assumption are made in science) that if that same study was conducted in, oh lets just throw it out there, NY that the results would statistically be the same. But there are some folks, who have a hard time with concepts, that won't believe the results of the study done in Ohio even though the circumstances are the same, because the study wasn't conducted in their immediate neighborhood. It's their right to not believe the study results but it doesn't make it right or is it logical. And those presenting that individual with the study information realize at some point that no amount of discussion is going to convince that person that the results of the study conducted in Ohio is relative to the situation in NY. So the conversation ends. The end. excelent analagy schodack - "capt" (and i say that with a pound of salt) is a tool, as evidenced by his following post to yours saying it isnt the same - yes it is - its science - its scientific experiemental design - thats how science works
|
|
|
Post by ouananiche on Feb 5, 2011 10:04:46 GMT -5
Harkness,
It would appear as though you have a hard on for Capt Tony. Do you feel as though you have to insult somebody each time you log on?
|
|
|
Post by harkness on Feb 5, 2011 11:59:52 GMT -5
when someone continus to bring up stuff thats bean beat over and over just to get everyone going when someone continus to ignore logical, clear, justifyable, info in responses posted by multiple people when someone ignores all suggestions by others to actually take some time to look for the info themselves when someone continues to demand answers from other people without being willing take read and weigh the evidence when someone just obviously has a clear bias and a hardon for something
then yes, that person gets labelled a tool in my mind
|
|
|
Post by ouananiche on Feb 5, 2011 13:20:31 GMT -5
You obviously do not have the ability to respectfully disagree with someone without insulting them. A sure sign of an unreasonable person. If you want to be taken seriously as someone who can contribute an INTELLIGENT thought to a discussion, lay off the insults and by all means use proper spelling and grammar.
|
|
|
Post by fishinmachine on Feb 5, 2011 13:36:19 GMT -5
AMEN
|
|
|
Post by schodackbassman on Feb 5, 2011 13:50:50 GMT -5
I, also, have no problem and would even encourage a study being done on Champlain for all or anyone of the different species of fish in the lake. More information never hurts. But that isn't the point. The point is, sans the information being available for a specific lake, that by looking at what the results of a study done on other bodies of water one could get a feel or understanding of what is going on our body of water. That is if one is open minded and understands how research is conducted.
But resources are more limited now more then ever. Choices need to be made. More access, more research, more stocking programs, etc.? Which gets you more bang for the buck and what do most sportsmen want? I think that is what it comes down to.
|
|
|
Post by An Bradon Charters on Feb 5, 2011 14:30:57 GMT -5
when someone continus to bring up stuff thats bean beat over and over just to get everyone going when someone continus to ignore logical, clear, justifyable, info in responses posted by multiple people when someone ignores all suggestions by others to actually take some time to look for the info themselves when someone continues to demand answers from other people without being willing take read and weigh the evidence when someone just obviously has a clear bias and a hardon for something then yes, that person gets labelled a tool in my mind I will try to respond to your concerns above in other order that you wrote them.1. No one is holding a gun to your head or any one else's and telling you you have to read any of my posts. 2. Some of the posts by others hear are logical and make sense. But saying they are justifiable is incorrect as once again there is do data to support that claim specifically on lake Champlain. 3. I have looked up the information myself. Once again there have been studies on other bodies of water but not Champlain. 4. I did not demand answers from anyone. I did ask for some to back up there claims using Lake Champlain specific information? 5. As far as me having a Hardon. that is a personal matter. I am quite sure such matters are forbidden on this forum. Now on to the other responses. Folks what I am saying is since there have been no long term studies on the effects of ever increasing tournaments of all types on Champlain. Why would we just want to accept what other studies in other regions have to say? We all know new studies come out every day and supersede the previous. Why do you people feel content to be followers instead of leaders? I will use the Walleye situation on Champlain as an example. There was a time when everyone thought that the walleye fishery could sustain itself and there were no problems. Well we all know that was not the case. How much money has been spent in trying to get it back up to par? How much would it have cost to manage it correctly in the first place? I have contacted fish And wildlife on this issue. There response was "There have been NO long term studies on the effects on lake Champlain" So they had no comment on weather there were any negative impacts. Each year there are more and more tournaments. Doing Multiple studies over a period of time On Champlain I believe help us better manage our resource. I am quite sure When the rules were written they were not expecting the pressure on the lake that we have now? Maybe the limits should be reduced as well? Stockbassman, I do appreciate your input as well as you being able to communicate it in a civilized way. looking at the posts, it is apparent some to not have that gene. You mentioned money being an issue and what do the sportsman want? Great question. You are correct. This day and age there are cut backs everywhere. While tournaments on Champlain keep coming and coming. Why not raise the fees as far as permitting on them a reasonable amount and be public about the reason why? Put that money into monitoring the fishery and study the effects on this resource. I think it is safe to say folks would not have an issue with that if they knew where there money was going. Is it more spending? It sure is. But why do people feel like since someone else. somewhere else said so, it is OK for me? That really boggles my mind. I would hope and expect everyone who uses the outdoors would always be looking for ways to make sure it is managed well and is protected so that the next generations of folks can also enjoy it. Once again just to close your eyes and ears just because 2011 tournament time is coming and you are competitive, and other places have seen no impacts it must be OK? Wake up, open those eyes, clean out those ears, and most importantly sit down and THINK. Everything we do on the earth comes at a price. Seems like many have forgotten that we are guests here? Very sad very sad indeed. I look forward to more folks thoughts on the issue as well as seeing in the future independent studies on weather or not Lake Champlain Can sustain itself with unlimited and ever growing Tournaments on its waters. Capt. Tony www.anbradoncharters.com
|
|